I'll be glad if crypto becomes unviable. It's a nasty, grifting ecologically destructive system designed to make a tiny minority rich.
But I feel really sorry for all the ordinary folks who've gotten pulled into it, hoping to escape the misery of late stage capitalism. Who will give them hope now?
@internetnerdgrl This aspect is really avoided in the discourse.
Idk other places but here in Turkey some very credible and beloved celebrities have been appearing in crypto ads, and our currency has been crashing in ways not less catastrophic than crypto bullshit. I will not blame people who fall for these scams like I blame those who actually benefit from them. At least to the same extent.
People rightfully associate it with the "white cryptobro" but ignore the rest of the story.
@cadxdr it will be the rich white crypto bros who walk out of this okay and a lot of other folks won't. I'm worried about what happens next for them. Who will try to capitalise on their rage?
@internetnerdgrl They'll be dragged into gig economy, microwork economy, content farms, click farms, just plain unemployment, and scams, endless scams.
Crypto in that sense is not novel but its destructive externalities maybe are.
It is something to see the west be much more mad about crypto than say quasi-enslaved workers in the global south or gig work, and it is telling how the climate effects, the only part that threatens the west at all, being the focal point.
@cadxdr thats a great point - the colonial labour practises are abhorrent. Esp projects like Axium Infinity, which rely on digital sweatshop workers in the global south, managed by pitbosses in the global north - revolting. And of course the impacts on the climate will likely effect the marginalised disproportionately too. Fucking Elon and his kids will be on Mars or wtvr.
@internetnerdgrl it's up to them, really--if they want to keep chasing false hopes rather than face up to reality, there's no shortage of scams and scapegoats they can chase. If they're willing to let this be a wake-up call, I hope they will find supportive communities and solidarity.
@bonifartius well the correct side for me would be the anti-aurhoritarian one and that might not allow for riding it out... But that's also a tried and tested method 🙂
@internetnerdgrl guess i'm just too disillusioned. i fear the morally correct side will just lead to ones early demise, at least if voiced openly. if anything, the last years have shown how easy it is for "the civilized democratic west" to fall into authoritarian patterns.
@bonifartius centrists historically are weak to the arguments and tactics of right wing authoritarians for sure. That's why we say socialism or barbarism!
And you're right about the consequences, and I don't know but I hope I'm brave enough for that.
i don't want socialism, i don't want anyone fucking with my life anymore. i know that this doesn't make the world a better place at large. i know by now that the only thing i can do is to not be an asshole and do small stuff to make things better. every organization magically attracts assholes who are hungry for power, like the various ecological movements and parties.
guess the only thing which doesn't get one instantly put into an internment camp or against a wall are small actions with few people involved.
then, the spooks probably know everything about us, so that ship may already have sailed.
maybe i'm just too much of a doomer ;)
@vikinghoarder just because crypto is a super-charged version of the worst bits of our economy does not mean it's the same. It's speculation based on nothing, exploitative in the extreme and full of security issues and potential for abuse. It's a mess.
If by fiat you mean government currency, it's not a speculative investment product. It's valued and managed by governments. Crypto currencies aren't really currencies.
I see from your profile that you are invested in this system.
We are ideologically opposed. Being against 'fiat' things - ie government and regulation is libertarian philosophy and I think it's morally wrong. So. Best of luck.
@internetnerdgrl crypto is a great medium to transfer money between countries. I planned to start using it to pay rent and the currency conversion costs works be cut down a decent amount.
@Casinoslcohol since crypto wildly fluctuates in value and takes days to process it is a terrible method to pay bills with.
@internetnerdgrl I think I can put usd into the coinbase, wait 7 days to purchase the crypto, transfer it to another wallet immediatly, and then sell it for local currency. After the 7 day wait, it should all process within an hour.
@Casinoslcohol Love to pay my rent 7 days in advance/late with an amount that could be 5x too much/little on the day
@internetnerdgrl I think I am not explaining myself well. Crypto is only actually being used for about an hour at most. It is just a way to transfer money between countries while avoiding the bank fees. The 7 day thing is not really a big deal as it is stored at USD during the 7 day period. I can use my local currency while waiting for the 7 days so there is not any issue with timing for rent payments.
@Casinoslcohol You realise if you store money as USD for 7 days the crypto could rise or fall enormously during that time? This is why crypto is a speculative financial product and not a currency. You might as well pay rent by transferring Apple stocks or something. At least the value is tied to something a bit more substantial than vibes.
@Casinoslcohol Also - gas fees vary wildly to cash in and out of crypto depending on whether whales are trading on anything big or trying to take out large amounts. So it makes sense to only trade large amounts of money to offset the cost of cashing in or out. So doing regular small transfers will still cost you heaps in fees.
@internetnerdgrl Not all #crypto uses PoW (which needs a lot of power). Also to me crypto is pure self-empowerment. The issue is that people focus on their fiat gains and not on how to use crypto - like sending money from the EU to south america with little to no fees. That's the issue that needs to be addressed!
@nformant the other types of Blockchain market themselves as less harmful but looks like green washing to me.
Others have tried to sell me on crypto on this thread by saying you dodge fees, taxes and scrutiny on moving money around the globe. Sounds shady as all heck, my dude.
I would recommend everyone to pay their taxes, etc. It is a public ledger, I mean, that is like the worst place on earth to hide something... but yes - the reputation of crypto is still bad and this space needs more regulation to protect people from bad actors and there are a lot!
@nformant I had to take a break from this conversation as I was getting frustrated. It is absolute nonsense to say that proof of stake uses no energy at all. It uses LESS energy to do a similar job, for a tech I think is harmful and useless. OVR is built on the Ethereum Blockchain, which is PoW. So your two examples don't prove your point and your little winky face doesn't make it either.
@nformant oh and Dogecoin uses a huge amount of power. Making a system designed to burn energy in pursuit of greed a tiny bit more efficient is not something to celebrate.
@internetnerdgrl Mhm, my latest reply seem to had an issue… tldr: It seems like you don’t understand the tech and you aren’t open to arguments, so just stick to your view (:
@nformant I think the problem is that I actually do understand the tech enough to challenge you, unlike people who will believe statements like 'we've invented a computer system that infinitely recycles power - source: trust me bro'
@internetnerdgrl You haven’t come up with a single fact.
Here are some: Dogecoin uses AuxPoW, this means it isn’t mined directly but a byproduct while mining (mostly) LTC - or scrypt coins in general. It isn’t really easy to measure or to allocate the consumption to it, but yes - there is still mining required.
PoS and ORV don’t need mining at all - what uses so much power. Blockchains are just the database and aren’t related to mining.
@internetnerdgrl OVR is a consensus used for Nano and has nothing to do with ETH.
ETH will switch to PoS. This means it will use 99.95% less energy than right now (source ethereum.org).
I share your views on the big gamble. That isn’t good and a lot people are getting burned.
However I see a lot where crypto can be useful and really don’t understand your hard feelings on a piece of technology that - no offense - you seem not to understand in detail.
@nformant ETH has been promising to switch and has made no move to do so. Even then it won't mean that it uses NO energy - which was your claim.
I looked into OVR - the most common result was a token and web 3 metaverse company. I can't find any results for it as a consensus method.
I find your statement that any crypto products can ever use NO ADDITIONAL ENERGY - that it's essentially an infinite machine - ridiculous. And I think you are projecting.
@internetnerdgrl Yes the ETH switch was postponed a couple of times, but ETH is actually working on that, so another thing you said that is not correct.
A >99% drop will result in a neglectable power consumption, but if you want to misunderstand me, feel free.
OVR is used by Nano or its meme brother Banano if you want to read more there.
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